On 19 March 2025, I interviewed Decide Graciela Gatti Santana, President of the United Nations Worldwide Residual Mechanism for Felony Tribunals (the ‘IRMCT’ or ‘Mechanism’). It was a wide-ranging dialog wherein we mentioned, amongst different issues, the downsizing of the IRMCT, makes an attempt to rewrite historical past in Rwanda and the previous Yugoslavia and the unhappy case of former IRMCT choose Lydia Mugambe who was not too long ago convicted of contemporary slavery offences within the UK. The interview has been edited and condensed for publication.
I start by asking Gatti Santana how she first turned fascinated with worldwide legislation and worldwide crimes. She factors to 2 formative experiences. First, as a choose within the felony courts of her native Uruguay, Gatti Santana dealt with various instances associated to the dictatorship through the ’70s, together with as an investigative choose within the case of former President Juan María Bordaberry, who in 2010 was sentenced to 30 years in jail for the homicide and disappearance of opposition supporters. ‘I started to work on crimes in opposition to humanity and found that was the place I needed to pursue my profession.’ Subsequently, Gatti Santana was the primary choose appointed to Uruguay’s specialised courts for organised crime. The worldwide dimension to her drug-trafficking, cash laundering and corruption instances confirmed Gatti Santana’s ambition to work in worldwide justice. When the Uruguayan Supreme Court docket requested her in 2010 if she could be the nation’s candidate for election as a choose on the IRMCT, Gatti Santana readily accepted. ‘I didn’t hesitate for an instantaneous.’
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The IRMCT was established in 2010 by the UN Safety Council to imagine various ‘residual’ features from the Worldwide Felony Tribunal for Rwanda (ICTR) and the Worldwide Felony Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY) as their mandates wound down. It contains two branches: one in Arusha, Tanzania, which assumed features derived from the ICTR and commenced operations in 2012; and one in The Hague, the Netherlands, which assumed features derived from the ICTY and commenced operations in 2013.
Regardless of its title, the IRMCT is greater than only a ‘residual mechanism’. It’s a global courtroom with a roster of 25 impartial judges and, having inherited lively caseloads from the ICTY and ICTR, its duties prolong nicely past conventional ‘residual’ features comparable to witness safety, supervision of sentences, and administration of archives. The IRMCT solely turned absolutely ‘residual’ in 2023 with the conclusion of its ultimate lively trial and attraction proceedings in core crimes instances. Since then, the IRMCT has sought to transition right into a purely residual establishment, specializing in its remaining mandated features and planning for the long run.
I ask Gatti Santana what made her need to be a choose at a global tribunal just like the IRMCT. ‘I used to be prepared, to attempt no less than, to make a contribution to worldwide justice. Additionally, South America is usually not very nicely represented in worldwide felony legislation as a result of we aren’t so lively on this space. So, I assumed it was a great alternative from that standpoint and to at some point return to Uruguay to share my expertise and to contribute to the event of worldwide felony legislation there by educating.’
Throughout her time on the IRMCT, Gatti Santana has been concerned in a few of the largest instances to come back out of the ICTY and ICTR. These embrace the (now indefinitely stayed) trial of Félicien Kabuga, an alleged financier of the Rwandan genocide who was arrested in Paris in 2020 after greater than 25 years on the run; as a member of the Appeals Chamber that elevated Bosnian Serb chief Radovan Karadžić’s sentence to life imprisonment for the crimes of genocide, warfare crimes and crimes in opposition to humanity; and, as President, presiding over the Appeals Chamber within the Štanišić and Simatović case, which elevated the jail sentences of two allies of former Serbian President Slobodan Milošević and expanded their conviction for warfare crimes and crimes in opposition to humanity to incorporate legal responsibility as members of a ‘joint felony enterprise’.
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In 2022, UN Secretary-Common António Guterres appointed Gatti Santana as President of the IRMCT for a time period of two years (renewed in 2024). I ask her what made her determine to use for the function after serving as a choose there for 10 years. Gatti Santana identifies the altering function of the IRMCT on the time – as its core judicial exercise wound down and it ready to transition to a completely ‘residual’ perform – as a key motive she put herself ahead. ‘I had the vitality, the desire, to do that work that’s not straightforward. And I assumed that bringing a brand new perspective, coming from part of the world that wasn’t straight concerned in any of the conflicts that we have now to take care of, could be good. And in addition, being a girl, why not?’
That is the second time in our dialog that Gatti Santana has referenced her background as an necessary consider her profession decisions and it’s clearly an integral a part of her skilled in addition to private id. I ask whether or not coming from South America influences her method to worldwide felony justice or the function of President. ‘That was one of many explanation why I assumed it is likely to be a good suggestion for me to change into President. As a result of we’re speaking about worldwide legislation and worldwide justice. It’s worldwide as a result of it represents the entire worldwide neighborhood; not simply Europe, not simply Africa. It’s for all of us. Coming as an outsider can provide you a special approach of taking a look at issues and I feel that’s necessary.’ Listening to Gatti Santana speak concerning the significance of worldwide justice being consultant of the worldwide neighborhood as an entire and the contemporary perspective that comes with being from part of the world far faraway from the conflicts which led to the institution of the ICTR and ICTY, I recall the Ecuadorean Registrar on the Worldwide Felony Court docket (ICC), Osvaldo Zavala Giler, expressing related sentiments in a earlier interview. I’m additionally struck that with the IRMCT President, the ICC Registrar, and various judges on the ICC and ICJ all hailing from Latin America, the area is making strides to deal with Gatti Santana’s issues about it not being sufficiently represented in worldwide felony legislation.
I ask Gatti Santana how necessary range and inclusion is to her because the IRMCT’s first feminine President. ‘It’s completely necessary as a result of it’s concerning the legitimacy of worldwide justice. We had been speaking earlier than about legitimacy by way of geographical distribution and involving all States in worldwide justice. However then you need to have a look at the folks which can be working in it, and the way is it doable that roughly half of the inhabitants shouldn’t be making choices. Ladies are ignored generally. Not utterly, issues are enhancing, however there’s nonetheless a whole lot of work to do. You possibly can take the Mechanism for example. We’re 25 judges however solely eight are girls. I’m not saying you at all times need to be 50/50, however steadiness needs to be the purpose. Women and men needs to be equally represented. And why? As a result of it’s confirmed that when you may have totally different views you get higher choices.’
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I flip to Gatti Santana’s tenure as President on the IRMCT. Tasked with overseeing the establishment’s downsizing, I ask what her targets had been upon assuming the Presidency. She says the overarching precedence was to give you a roadmap for the Safety Council – which decides each two years whether or not to resume the IRMCT’s mandate – setting out how its downsizing and eventual closure could possibly be achieved. ‘The large problem was to current to the Safety Council an thought of how the long run could possibly be for the Mechanism, significantly how you can shield the legacy of the establishment.’ The primary milestone in Gatti Santana’s completion technique was to complete the judicial exercise in relation to the IRMCT’s core crimes instances. ‘And we had been capable of do it. We completed Stanisic and Simatovic in Could 2023 upfront of projections and the Kabuga trial was suspended in September the identical 12 months. So, we have now moved to the actual residual section.’
Between 1 January 2023 and 1 January 2025, the IRMCT noticed a 50% lower in workers and a funds discount of US$21m. I ask Gatti Santana how she’s discovered it presiding over such a drastic inside restructuring. ‘It’s not a straightforward second for an establishment when you’re downsized. There’s uncertainty and persons are insecure about what’s going to occur with jobs. That’s regular. We’re all people, we have now households, and all people can really feel uncomfortable with that.’ She credit the IRMCT workers for not permitting that insecurity and uncertainty to distract them from their work. ‘We’re very fortunate as a result of we have now workers which can be actually dedicated to what we’re doing. An enormous a part of our work now’s to plan for the long run, by which I imply planning for a day when, as a result of we had been created as a short lived establishment, perhaps we received’t be right here. And the workers listed below are planning for that and all of the steps that should be taken, as a result of they’re dedicated to the establishment. Even when it’s a tough scenario for them, they’re dedicated to doing what must be completed to guard the legacy of the establishment and assist the necessary mandates the Mechanism continues to execute. So I’m very, very fortunate that we have now this sort of workers. If not, it wouldn’t be doable.’
Gatti Santana is evident that, even when the IRMCT’s prosecution and trial actions have completed, the establishment stays busy. ‘Individuals tend to assume that after a judgment is pronounced, the work is completed, and that’s not true. After the judgment, you may have an important and prolonged a part of the judicial cycle that should proceed, together with enforcement of sentences, safety of witnesses and adjudicating requests for entry to confidential data, which is now being utilized in home prosecutions associated to the genocide in opposition to the Tutsis in Rwanda or the crimes dedicated within the Balkans warfare. We additionally need to administer our archives, making an attempt to make all the knowledge we maintain accessible: our findings, our jurisprudence which is so necessary for the event of worldwide legislation.’
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If the dedication of the IRMCT’s workers is important to the fulfilment of its mandate, so is the dedication and cooperation of States, significantly in terms of implementing IRMCT jail sentences. ‘There’s a bent to assume that after the large investigations and trials, the justice cycle is completed. However what’s the purpose in having a judgment in case you can not implement it? We want the cooperation of States and are very grateful to those that determine to be enforcement States. We perceive it’s an enormous accountability.’
To assist ease the burden of that accountability on enforcement States, some commentators have proposed the institution of a global detention unit the place people convicted by worldwide courts and tribunals can serve their sentences moderately than counting on the goodwill of particular person States. Gatti Santana believes a centralized enforcement system ‘could possibly be a good suggestion in an excellent world’, as ‘it could save sources and be a greater system for everybody’ however doesn’t see it taking place in the actual world. ‘In the mean time, no less than, I don’t assume it’s doable to consider one thing like this.’ Why not? ‘In the event you have a look at the assorted worldwide felony courts, they’ve totally different backgrounds, totally different mandates that had been created by totally different organizations of States, and totally different political pursuits from States.’
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All through her time as President, Gatti Santana has confronted criticism from some quarters concerning the continuation of the IRMCT. Russia, specifically, has argued that the establishment “ought to have closed way back” and has known as for the rapid switch of its remaining features to nationwide authorities and UN entities. ‘Criticism is a part of my life as a choose since day one. All judicial choices will be criticized. One individual wins, the opposite loses. So, I’m used to it.’ As a substitute, she prefers to elucidate to these States calling for the IRMCT to be wrapped up instantly that ‘justice is greater than only a judgment. It’s a protracted course of that takes time and sources.’ She would additionally encourage States to remain trustworthy to the beliefs that led them to ascertain the IRMCT and its predecessors within the first place. ‘When the worldwide neighborhood determined to have worldwide justice for sure crimes, they made a dedication to an thought. I feel the cheap determination now could be to stay dedicated to that concept.’
Gatti Santana cautions that another excuse to keep away from speeding to switch the IRMCT’s features to nationwide authorities is that home practices and legal guidelines differ and might unfairly influence outcomes. ‘Some features perhaps will be transferred simply, however others are harder as a result of, in case you switch them to States, you possibly can have totally different remedy of people in the identical place, which wouldn’t be honest. That is evident within the differing approaches to early launch in our enforcement States.’ Gatti Santana is hopeful that the worldwide neighborhood will preserve this in thoughts when deciding the IRMCT’s future. ‘That’s why we must be very cautious with the choices we have now and I hope the Safety Council will make the best choices.’
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The Safety Council making the ‘proper choices’, Gatti Santana cautions, can be important to making sure that the legacy of the IRMCT is protected. ‘The significance of this establishment, and the ICTY and ICTR earlier than us, is that they had been capable of set up what was the reality, what occurred in these conflicts. Each single truth was confirmed past cheap doubt. And that’s so necessary for the long run, particularly as we now face these new waves of denial and makes an attempt to rewrite historical past.’
The ‘new waves of denial’ and ‘makes an attempt to rewrite historical past’ are references to a disturbing rise in genocide denial, historic revisionism and the glorification of convicted warfare criminals in Rwanda and the previous Yugoslavia. Gatti Santana and IRMCT Prosecutor Serge Brammertz have each expressed their issues about this development in briefings to the Safety Council. What can the IRMCT and States do to fight it? Gatti Santana believes that ‘schooling is vital. The Mechanism tries to be as lively as doable with the sources we have now, and respecting our mandate, to convey our jurisprudence and our findings nearer to the general public to allow them to perceive the truth of what occurred.’
The archives of the ICTR, the ICTY, and the IRMCT are a significant software in educating affected communities and offering them with entry to correct data. ‘Archives are crucial inheritance for the long run. They must be protected and accessible for future generations. That’s an important a part of my work.’ The IRMCT runs the Mechanism Info Programme for Affected Communities within the former Yugoslavia, funded by the European Union, ‘to assist them perceive how you can work with our archives and to entry our proof. That is necessary so these from the communities can clarify what actually occurred: what the witnesses mentioned in addition to the Courts’ findings and choices. As a result of in case you don’t know what actually occurred, you possibly can imagine no matter you need or no matter someone else needs you to imagine.’
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Reflecting on her time as a choose and President on the IRMCT, I ask Gatti Santana whether or not her views about worldwide justice have modified. Gatti Santana says they haven’t modified a lot and, regardless of the most important challenges at the moment dealing with worldwide justice and the establishments tasked with delivering it, she stays optimistic as a result of in her view there isn’t any higher various on the market: ‘It’s one of the best answer, even when it’s not good, as justice is a pre-condition for reconciliation.’ She believes that whereas a few of the criticism of worldwide courts and tribunals could also be justified, some is the results of unreasonably excessive expectations. ‘Generally society expects extra from tribunals than what they’ll ship. They anticipate them to reconcile society. That can’t be completed by a judgment. Judges determine if an individual is responsible or harmless, and naturally that judgment will have an effect, nevertheless it’s a part of a a lot greater course of.’
That ‘greater course of’ of reconciliation seems to be underneath rising pressure within the Western Balkans, with tensions as soon as once more on the rise within the area. With 11 July 2025 marking the thirtieth anniversary of the Srebrenica genocide, I ask Gatti Santana what it could say about worldwide justice as an answer, and what influence it could have on the legacy of the IRMCT and ICTY – whose landmark rulings confirmed that genocide was dedicated in Srebrenica – if battle had been to interrupt out as soon as once more within the international locations of the previous Yugoslavia? Gatti Santana declines to remark particularly on the scenario within the Balkans however notes, as a normal commentary on the world as we speak, that ‘sadly humanity appears to not perceive and to not keep in mind what occurred earlier than.’
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Gatti Santana’s dedication to worldwide justice and being a choose shines by all through our dialog. ‘I might by no means do the rest. Having the chance to make choices on points the place folks or the State can not, it’s an honour. It’s an enormous accountability as nicely, however I do it proudly and I like to do it. It’s a ardour, actually.’
‘Being a choose means that you’re able to take a whole lot of accountability and to being dedicated to your work. And, it means that you’re prepared to just accept greater requirements of behaviour and you can’t do issues that different folks can do. As a choose, you symbolize justice and that accountability extends past the courtroom. You’ll at all times be seen as a choose.’
Gatti Santana’s appreciation of what it means to be a choose contrasts sharply with the case of former IRMCT choose Lydia Mugambe, who just some days earlier than I spoke with Gatti Santana was convicted within the UK of contemporary slavery offences in opposition to a person who labored as her nanny. On 2 Could, Mugambe was sentenced to simply over six years in jail. Following her sentencing Mugambe resigned as an IRMCT choose.
Once we spoke in March, instantly after Mugambe’s conviction, Gatti Santana was constrained in what she might say however her dismay was palpable. ‘It’s horrible what occurred with Decide Mugambe. A really unlucky shock. We’re ready to see the ultimate developments. However on our aspect we’re going to take all of the steps obligatory, and in accordance with the legislation and our laws, to guard the integrity of the tribunal and likewise our work, balancing in fact the rights of [Mugambe] but additionally the pursuits of the establishment.’ Since my dialog with Gatti Santana, the IRMCT has launched two statements which have been criticised by some commentators within the worldwide justice subject for his or her muted response to Mugambe’s conviction and for failing to reveal what inside disciplinary measures the IRMCT was taking as a consequence of “the confidential nature of inside procedures”.
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I conclude by asking Gatti Santana what she hopes can be her legacy as IRMCT President. ‘What I would love is that in 30-40 years the Mechanism and the ICTR and the ICTY are remembered and their legacy is protected. If I can obtain that, if I will be a part of that course of, I can be very, very joyful and I’ll take into account that my job was nicely completed.’
(Picture: IRMCT)
