Inside the Life of an International Lawyer: Interview With Anusha Madhusudhan

Anusha Madhusudhan is a world lawyer who has labored in international legislation companies, assisted the Worldwide Courtroom of Justice and the Worldwide Residual Mechanism for Legal Tribunals, suggested States (together with India’s mission on the United Nations), and represented purchasers  earlier than worldwide tribunals. She secured her LLM from New York College and her BA, LLB (Hons) from NUALS, Kochi. On this interview, Abhijeet and Adithi from Staff JFIEL ask about her insights on improvising and taking leaps of religion in life, the fun and trials of a profession in worldwide legislation, her imaginative and prescient of constructing Bangalore a hub for worldwide legislation lovers, organising her personal observe and her work in artwork, cultural heritage, and restitution.

Abhijeet: Thanks a lot for becoming a member of us Anusha—it’s a privilege to have you ever right here. May we begin by asking about what impressed you to pursue worldwide legislation, and whether or not your motivations are the identical right this moment?

Anusha: Thanks for having me, talking to college students is one in every of my absolute favorite issues.

It began off as a motivation to pursue legislation normally, which, like most nice issues in my life, was a results of a superb upbringing. Rising up, residence was a spot of curiosity, humour and studying. And searching again, this was so enjoyable and provoking.

First, storytelling and efficiency had been issues I noticed and beloved early on. I educated in classical singing and dance from the age of 4. I loved stage appearing and artistic writing in class (making lifelong reminiscences with my greatest pals!), and watched my household effortlessly immerse themselves in lots of artistic and mental pursuits with a quiet confidence, whereas staying devoted to work and residential life – whether or not designing our houses, devising diet plans and inventing recipes, yoga, philosophy, linguistics, advertising, drugs, music, engineering, legislation—all of it. My maternal grandmom and her siblings all the time had hilarious one-liners up their sleeve for all times’s weird moments!

As a result of there weren’t outlined limits on what I may aspire to do or be, I wished to expertise the whole lot life needed to provide. It felt like probably the most pure factor. My husband is similar means and had the same upbringing of openness and fixed inspiration. He’s moved from engineering to instructing, museology, and even working in movies to now, diplomacy!

We’re very lucky to guide extraordinarily fascinating lives because of our work and the folks we love, and we don’t field ourselves by way of what we take pleasure in.

Second, in highschool, I used to be naturally drawn to advocacy. My dad, who I all the time thought had a terrific authorized thoughts (with out formal coaching as a lawyer) inspired me to significantly think about legislation. He believed I had the aptitude and sensibilities for this superb profession, and, as an entrepreneur, he additionally handled authorized issues.  Watching him analysis the legislation, totally put together for conferences with attorneys, the limitless persistence and overcoming adversity…all that helped me develop a way of equity and sound judgment, manifesting within the capability to take well-thought out choices.

Third, along with all of this, a core worth that runs throughout our household is the significance of being service-minded. Fourth, the truth that we travelled a good bit after I was younger, positively made me open minded and adaptable which helps rather a lot.

And final, after I was round 16, I met somebody who had performed Jessup, which appeared to me just like the logical subsequent step after MUNs! My convictions grew and our journey to DC for the world rounds gave me confidence in my advocacy abilities as a speaker. As wide-eyed and idealistic as I used to be, I assumed if I may make a residing out of this, then nice! Each expertise I had later sharpened my imaginative and prescient increasingly, which led me to my current motivation—to proceed my work whereas creating new alternatives within the discipline and mentoring college students alongside the way in which.

Abhijeet: You talked about that since your childhood, you may have been travelling and centered on studying new issues. I really feel this displays in your profession too—you’ve performed such totally different work in companies, establishments, and diplomacy. So was this the deliberate trajectory, or was there a degree of improvisation alongside the way in which?

Anusha: [laughs] It was lots of improvisation, and I feel this is likely to be the one factor tying the entire interview collectively! After I began, I knew my profession could be totally different as a result of I didn’t know anybody else within the discipline. I assumed my dream job could be to advise States on worldwide legislation issues, which is what I got down to pursue. After undergrad, I did my LLM at NYU, and my first job was with the Indian mission to the UN in New York. I learnt how a few of worldwide legislation is created: the roles of diplomats, how negotiations happen, their significance, the language of diplomacy, and proposing elegant options to complicated issues. This is a useful talent, not only for diplomats, however in life: to return out of any state of affairs unscathed!

However I rapidly realised this function didn’t permit me to pursue authorized advocacy within the sense of mature authorized disputes. There was additionally a component of seeing what alternatives got here my means, and gleaning from them as a lot as I may. Round after I left, one other mission was trying to broaden their authorized staff as a result of they had been going to be within the Safety Council, and a 12 months and a half later, I joined as a lawyer for a international authorities. And that was a spectacular mixture of authorized, coverage and diplomatic work.

Between my work for these missions, although, I had moved to Tanzania (the UN-IRMCT), the place I set to work on my first litigation at a world prison tribunal, which was a turning level for me: it’s after I acquired to expertise the decision-making course of and observe oral advocacy, realising simply how a lot I wished to function Counsel! So, then, I started equipping myself to transition from advisory to consultant work, which is how I ended up working with legislation companies finally.

I developed different area of interest pursuits, however to reply your query: no, it was not deliberate, it was lots of going with the movement and seeing what matches. And it all the time is!

This profession, and I suppose any profession, very similar to life itself is a continuing balancing act of holding on and letting go.

Adithi: I’m interested in your transition from worldwide legislation in idea to being thrown into challenges of diplomacy. As somebody attempting a profession path like this, I’m afraid I’ll change into disillusioned by its harsh realities. What was it like for you?

Anusha: I might say it was a transition from eager to be in worldwide legislation, to really being in it. On a spectrum starting from excessive pessimism to excessive idealism, I’m centred however optimistic. Regardless of what’s going on on the earth—I nonetheless really feel like worldwide legislation has been a obligatory and optimistic growth!

A lot good has come out of getting worldwide justice and accountability mechanisms, and we’d like multilateral, diplomatic channels to resolve conflicts. It’s higher to be right here and enhance the system than the choice, which isn’t having these channels.

To deal with your level on the connection between profession decisions and disillusionment, in navigating your profession, it comes all the way down to what are your choices.

Right here once more I recall my dad’s recommendation on having perspective. A variety of the occasions, the best choice is to have the choice—studying what you possibly can from the state of affairs and making decisions that provide you with management on the place you go sooner or later. Some degree of disillusionment could be fairly useful, as a result of it acts like a compass by way of what issues to you.

I don’t assume worldwide legislation is working the way in which it was envisaged, however persevering with the idea that the world is already a greater place due to it, goes to make the distinction. Martin Luther King is famously quoted as saying “the arc of the ethical universe is lengthy, nevertheless it bends towards justice.” Change does occur.

What a time to be a world lawyer! The place our coaching is so related and we’re geared up to grasp and cope with among the hardest challenges societies face.

Abhijeet: Sure, it definitely explains the rising curiosity within the discipline!

May you inform us what it was like being on the Worldwide Residual Mechanism for Legal Tribunals, at the moment?

Anusha: I used to be in Tanzania in 2019 helping the Mechanism, which was the successor physique to the Worldwide Legal Tribunal for Rwanda. We acquired to be a part of the primary ever trial on the Arusha department of the Courtroom in Prosecutor v Augustin Ngirabatware. It was my first time working for the UN, versus say a mission, and I noticed how the construction and roles of various actors—just like the Prosecutor and Chambers function. I labored with the President of the Courtroom and the rigorous software of worldwide legislation was an unforgettable studying expertise. I might go as far as to say it was a life-changing alternative as a result of I met one in every of my shut pals there! Within the ICJ too, it actually is a fellowship in each sense of the phrase—the training and camaraderie had been transformative.

You requested me earlier why I got here to worldwide legislation and what made me keep. What made me keep is definitely the folks I met alongside the way in which! They make life so wealthy. I even met my husband in New York!

Alongside this lengthy journey you find yourself assembly a distinguished group of individuals, making you respect life in numerous methods. A few years again, for our marriage ceremony, we had a 3rd of our visitors journey from 8 international locations to have fun with us, and my good friend and I assembly in Tanzania on the UN remained such a conversation-starter and I’ve limitless gratitude for these sorts of moments. I bear in mind these days very fondly (particularly our gateway to Zanzibar and the very shifting go to to the Ngorongoro crater!).

Abhijeet: If we may soar ahead by a number of extra years, what was it wish to expertise the Worldwide Courtroom of Justice Fellowship?

Anusha: There are two issues that aren’t in your management: the Decide you’ll be working with, and the docket of the courtroom, which decide your expertise there. I had a superb expertise with my staff and the timing couldn’t have been higher! Within the historical past of the Courtroom, I’m wondering if there was a cohort that has seen half a dozen requests for provisional measures comparatively back-to-back. We labored on about 11 circumstances on a wide range of topics starting from torture, occupation, racial discrimination and genocide to territorial disputes and diplomatic legislation, and in numerous phases of the proceedings. Maybe there was some political momentum however sure, we had a really busy 12 months.

I used to be additionally invited to be on the jury of a movie competition – the Motion pictures that Matter Pageant the place Decide Charlesworth gave a masterclass. It’s a documentary movie competition in The Hague, showcasing movies on the intersection of worldwide justice, worldwide legislation, and human rights. This was a very distinctive expertise, which I don’t assume I may have had anyplace else. Reviewing the work of worldwide acclaimed filmmakers and attending to be part of the premiere was such a superb expertise. A few of the impactful movies we “judged” had been additionally winners at Cannes and opened at Sundance.

Abhijeet: We’d like to know extra about your curiosity in artwork legislation and in problems with cultural heritage and restitution? How did this come about?

Anusha: This, once more, feels prefer it took place by improv! Though it is smart if you join the dots backwards. I began working within the discipline of artwork legislation in about 2021 after I was at Aarna Regulation. After spending 4.5 years in New York, I moved again residence to Bangalore, which is the place I’m from, and joined Aarna, an India-based worldwide legislation observe. I used to be part of each their disputes and artwork legislation practices. We had a enjoyable staff of younger attorneys and actually beloved working collectively. We’re nonetheless nice pals and all the time catch up after I’m on the town. Because of the Companions, we had been in a position to work with numerous purchasers like museums and people, on recommendation regarding elements of repatriation and illustration in disputes referring to acquisition of wonderful artwork.

Progressively, I began fascinated by how this world intersects with worldwide legislation. After I moved to the ICJ, I labored with a Decide who’s a number one tutorial on this discipline, and began to analysis the function of the courtroom in cultural heritage disputes. And artwork and cultural heritage has change into a part of my very own observe now.

My background definitely made it doable to understand this line of labor and I actually believed in bringing your entire persona to your worldwide legislation profession and discovering your individual path! That is the recommendation I’ve been sharing with mentees for years. And lately, I heard a Decide who talked about authenticity slicing by means of the noise in a hyper aggressive discipline, and it actually resonated.

Abhijeet: It’s fairly fantastic to listen to about your ardour for artwork. At Jindal, we’ve additionally had some college who had been within the hyperlinks between theatre or artwork as mediums to replicate on the legislation itself, and even as an alternative choice to it.

Anusha: There’s a extremely artistic angle to legislation, which I spoke about in a earlier interview. I feel a part of why I like legislation and advocacy is as a result of the way in which through which you inform the story is so unique to you, and I like the method of placing the narrative collectively.

Adithi: Do you assume your artistic course of has been totally different, say by way of your non-public observe with Aarna Regulation in comparison with your work for various international locations and boards?

Anusha: After all, as a result of if you find yourself working for a corporation, it needs to be a collaborative course of in that sense—you might need your individual means of doing issues, however others might need a unique imaginative and prescient! As you acquire extra expertise, you’ll change into extra assured in your individual method and trusting your instinct, and naturally strengthening your credibility alongside the way in which is essential.

On the time, I had simply moved again residence throughout COVID and since the founders of Aarna Regulation had a novel imaginative and prescient to construct a world legislation observe in Bangalore, it made good sense to hitch them. Cities like Delhi and Mumbai are well-known for his or her alternatives in legislation, however (it possibly my nostalgia talking) a tradition of understanding and innovation provides me a sense Bangalore is well-positioned to play a particular function as a world legislation hub! One in every of my longer-term objectives is to leverage my background and community within the metropolis to create alternatives by means of my observe. There’s a rising circle of diplomatic and academic professionals who can add an fascinating dimension to our work.

I recall that after I was on the ICJ, there have been about three Indians on the Courtroom, and we had been from Bangalore/Karnataka typically, apart from the Decide, after all. What an fascinating coincidence, I assumed!

Editor’s be aware: this made us replicate on the truth that JFIEL’s Mahima, Pushkar, Karan (three previous Editors-in-Chief) and Adithi (presently co-Editor-in-Chief) are additionally from Bangalore).

Abhijeet: These are unimaginable insights. Can we ask about what lies forward? Will we see extra leaps of religion and improvisation sooner or later?

Anusha: Sure, completely. I’m simply ending up a contract with Arthur Cox, which relies in Dublin.

My husband and I are relocating again to Malta and it’s a contented and necessary stage in our lives.

I’m lucky to say that I began my impartial worldwide legislation observe final 12 months fairly organically as I started to obtain requests for recommendation. I onboarded purchasers who’re doing crucial work within the discipline of artwork, cultural heritage and advocacy. I stay grateful to them for the chance to work on selling restitution of Nazi looted artwork and colonial loot, in addition to helping museums and cultural organisations in India on a full vary of authorized and coverage points. I’m additionally making ready to draft UNESCO nomination dossiers within the context of getting websites listed on the World Heritage Listing. 

This 12 months, I’m dedicating my time and efforts to constructing and structuring the expansion my observe and integrating my abilities, expertise, imaginative and prescient and life-style into its group and growth. 

It’s no simple job being primarily based out of various international locations whereas constructing a authorized observe. However with a rock strong assist system, lot of grit and a few nerve, most issues could be made doable.

Managing worldwide disputes, I might say, would be the subsequent problem I look ahead to addressing! I additionally wish to do extra instructing and mentorship. We’ve talked rather a lot about improv and the uncertainty of a profession in worldwide legislation. I wish to handle this situation in an upcoming instructing project. In legislation faculty, we’re not taught methods to determine alternatives and methods to construct resilience when issues don’t work out the way in which we wished. Individuals typically examine the authorized career to a profession in drugs. However I actually assume a world legislation profession is nearer to a profession in appearing! There are few alternatives and lots of gifted folks, and naturally, some extra privileged than others. But when you’ll be able to make it, then you possibly can have a large impression, which makes it price it.

Adithi: May you inform us extra about your plans to your tutorial endeavours, and maybe spotlight the curriculum you might be growing?

Anusha: The principle focus in drafting this curriculum is to weave the speculation and observe of worldwide legislation collectively. Within the textbooks we studied, you study what worldwide legislation is and that it governs relationships between States and different actors. However how? The place? What does this imply in granular phrases? Even one thing as primary because the distinction between the UN Secretariat and the missions, their interactions, and what it means to work in that ecosystem will assist college students perceive their roles higher.

There’s a lot to be performed and I’m wanting ahead to all of it—the advocacy, instructing and mentorship. We’re shifting away from being seen as Indian attorneys with LLMs in worldwide legislation to succesful, credible and enterprising worldwide attorneys from India.

Abhijeet: Thanks for these inspiring ideas which is able to absolutely resonate with our readers!

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